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Non-comm John Laing Miller, Ratho #Now commemorated
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Adam Brown



Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 722
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 2:57 pm    Post subject: Non-comm John Laing Miller, Ratho #Now commemorated Reply with quote

I can't find the details of this man buried in Ratho cemetery. I don't know if his name is John Laing or John Laing Miller?

He may have been discharged by 1919 but that hasn't stopped others being commemorated on the CWGC database.

There is no James Laing or James Miller on either the Ratho or Kirknewton War memorials.

The inscription is very worn so I have provided a transcription.

In Loving memory of
John Laing
Son of William Miller
Kellerstain (Kellerstain is near Ratho)
Who died of illness
Contracted on Active Service
23rd July 1919 Aged 21
Also of his daughter
Elizabeth Mary
who died 2nd April 1920 Aged 24
Also the above
William Miller
of Belsyde, Linlithgow
Who died 7th Jan 1943, Aged 80
And his wife
Elizabeth Catherine Brown
Who died 1?th April 1950, Aged 85




Last edited by Adam Brown on Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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spoons



Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 1788
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say that it is most likely John Laing Miller (his sister would have been Elizabeth Mary Miller. He is certainly not on CWGC or SNWM. If you can prove the 'contracted whilst' bit then it seems there would be a case for inclusion but I guess it depends what the death cert says.

\Paul
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Jamawa



Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Stirling

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Adam Brown, thanks for your interest and for posting this photograph.

This is the gravestone of my great uncle, great aunt and great grandparents. John Laing Miller (known as Jack Miller) was spoken of by the three of his siblings who survived into my lifetime as having "died in WW1". Unfortunately I don't know which regiment he served in or exactly what illness or injury he died from.

His sister Elizabeth Mary Miller was known as Elsie.

James Miller, known as Jim Miller, was another sibling, too young to have fought in WW1, who took over his father's poultry farm at Belsyde Farm, Linlithgow, and ran it until he retired in (I think) the late 1970s and moved to live in Linlithgow town.

I may be able to find out more about Jack Miller from my parents or extended family; if so, I'll post the information here.
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apanderson



Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 6906
Location: Stirlingshire

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a few credits left for Scotland's People so I downloaded the Death Certificate for John Laing Miller. Details as follows:

JOHN LAING MILLER, Single, Occupation: Commercial Clerk
Died at Kellerstain House, Ratho on 23rd July 1919 at 9.30 a.m, age 20 years
Father: William Miller, Occupation: Banker
Mother: Elizabeth Catherine Miller, maiden surname: Brown
Cause of Death: Pulmonary Tuberculosis, 1 year


No mention of his previous service is included on his Death Certificate.

Anne

P.S. Hello and Welcome to the Forum Jamawa! Very Happy
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Jamawa



Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Stirling

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much for downloading that, Anne - I was actually looking at the Scotland's People site myself to see how to go about getting it.

I had a look through what info my parents have today. In a geneology some relative compiled, Jack Miller is noted as "died of TB after WW1" but I could find no record of what regiment he served in or what rank he might have held, and amongst a few old Miller family photos of young men in WW1 uniform, none are labelled or definitely identifiable as Jack Miller. However, it's still possible that other members of the family have more information.

My own feeling is that, given that the brother and sister commemorated on this gravestone were long survived by another six siblings who seemed to feel their loss deeply to the end of their lives, and that the family seem to have been fairly well off and well connected and remained settled in and around the same area, they would've made sure Jack Miller got whatever recognition he was due. I'd nonetheless like to find out more about him if I could, just for the sake of my own curiosity, I guess.

Thanks once again!
Jane.
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apanderson



Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 6906
Location: Stirlingshire

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jane

I was having a wee think about the photos of the young men in uniform you were talking about . . . . .

If you were willing to scan the photos, there's one or two sites I know of who have members pretty good at being able to pinpoint regiments. Probably some of the members on here would be able to help too but I don't think we've had that sort of query before on the forum so I wouldn't like to volunteer anybody!

As for the DC for John/Jack, if you'd like a copy, send me a PM with your personal e-mail address and I'll send you a copy.

Anne
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spoons



Joined: 02 Oct 2007
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Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

His service records appear not to have survived, at least they are not available on Ancestry. Unable to identify his MIC from info available although there are a few possibilities.

\Paul
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spoons



Joined: 02 Oct 2007
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Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reckon a regiment should help solve the MIC problem. There is one in the HLI that I took a long look at.

\Paul
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John Burnett



Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 306
Location: Fife

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try the local papers for the area in which he died. Besides the usual death notice there may be a bit in the local news e.g. death of ex-soldier.
I have found a few like that and was able to get quite a bit of detail.
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Jamawa



Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Stirling

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm returning here because I've recently discovered that John Laing Miller is listed in George Watson's College war records. The biography provided on their website accords with what I knew from family history, and also gives his regiment as the Royal Scots.

I imagine his name will be on the school's War Memorial, although I haven't been to see it for myself.

Jane
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spoons



Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 1788
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect that he may be (from the Medal Index Card)

Cpl John L Miller (250815) Royal Scots
If so, no service or pension record survives, no entry on Soldiers Died in the Great War, CWGC or SNWM.

From the MIC - Victory and British medals D/101 B27/2823
Medals were returned under KR 992 in 1923 - 362/adt

most likely cause is that they were unable to be delivered

comparing the information on this MIC with that on the school record (link above), then if it can be proven that it is the same man and that the facts are correct (I stress, proven) then it might be the beginning of a case to have him added to the CWGC records

\Paul
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Jamawa



Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Stirling

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much for your interest, and for that information, Paul.

I've just now found and downloaded a scan (8 image files) of his Pension/Medical Discharge form by searching British Army WWI Pension Records on ancestry.co.uk website (same number you found, 250815). It has quite a lot of medical information, although I can't make out all the handwriting, and it does seem to state that he contracted TB while serving. It differs from the George Watson's bio in that I think it records that he was a Corporal (not Sgt) in the 12th battalion at the time of his discharge on 5th February 1919.

It makes for sad reading as he was clearly very severely ill when he was discharged.

I know John Laing Miller's d.o.b. was 7th August 1898.

I wonder why his medals were returned. I know his father bought Belsyde farm, near Linlithgow, and moved there from Kellerstain House sometime in the 1920s (I think in 1925 but I'm not certain of that date).

Would the scan of his discharge documents I found constitute proof for the purposes of the CWGC records?

Thanks again,
Jane
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spoons



Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 1788
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't let the rank difference throw you, this is very common and he would probably have been a Cpl with acting rank of Sergeant.

I have asked someone from the In From the Cold Project to check to see if he might be a non-commemoration (for War Grave status).

You can see the posting I made on the Scottish War Memorials Project at http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=6676&mforum=warmemscot

Good luck

\Paul
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Jamawa



Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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Location: Stirling

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much for posting that, I'll be keeping an eye on that thread to see what comes of it.

In any case I'm really pleased to have added this much to what little I originally knew about my great uncle. His last surviving sibling died in 1994, but he has at least eight still living nephews and nieces and I don't know how many great-nephews, great-nieces, etc, around the world who I imagine will also be interested.

Jane
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kinnethmont



Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 121
Location: aberdeenshire

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jane

As Paul advises I am looking into this.
Do you have the Death Certificate? If so, can you mail it to me at the address from my signature.

Do you know where he is buried and whether a headstone is in place? Update - Ignore this question.

Will provide update on the Non comms thread you are watching on the other Forum.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.


Last edited by kinnethmont on Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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